What is known about SWA 1380 so far

"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn) 04/19/2018 at 10:29 • Filed to: Planelopnik

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A good, clean synopsis of what is known about the engine failure on SWA 1380. About the only thing new is that the passenger died from a head wound caused by shrapnel, and not necessarily from being sucked half way out of the airplane, though that certainly didn’t help.

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OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars > ttyymmnn 04/19/2018 at 10:40

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I was going to try to post updates but you and ForSweden have much better sources than I can find.

ttyymmnn > OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars 04/19/2018 at 10:46

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Most of what appears in the news has to be gleaned from breathless articles that spend more time talking about how pax live streamed the event and how freaked out everybody was. I’m sure they were, but I appreciate the more clinical tone of this article. I would have been shitting my pants too. But there’s also a good reason that they hang two engines on those planes, and it’s not just for more power. The press is also going to makes lots of hay about the fact that the captain was a former USN fighter pilot who kept her cool in an emergency. I would wager that any professional pilot would have acted in exactly the same manner.

jimz > ttyymmnn 04/19/2018 at 10:50

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part of me is surprised that a fan blade could leave yet the rest are seemingly mostly intact.

the worrying part is that this is the second SW 737-700 to do this. Apparently both aircraft entered service within a month of each other.

OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars > ttyymmnn 04/19/2018 at 10:54

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Everyone is acting like its amazing the plane stayed up when a plane is meant to continue flying at like 60% of engine power on one engine. Also designed to continue take off with one engine. Yes the engine blowing up is bad, but people are acting like it was magic.

ttyymmnn > jimz 04/19/2018 at 10:55

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It is troubling, especially on an engine that is otherwise so extremely reliable. There are others here who are much better versed in the engineering and construction aspects of these engines, so anything I could add would be a poorly educated guess. The investigators have a lot of work to do to get to the bottom of this.

ttyymmnn > OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars 04/19/2018 at 11:00

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I think it demonstrates just how little the general public understands about aviation. As far as single engine operation:

The first 757 rolled out of the Renton, Wash., factory in 1982. On March 29, 1991, a 757, powered by only one of its engines, took off, circled and landed at the 11,621-foot-high (3542-meter-high) Gonggar Airport in Tibet. The airplane performed perfectly although the airfield was in a box canyon surrounded by peaks more than 16,400 feet (4998 meters) high. ( Boeing )

This wasn’t a 757, but you get the idea.

OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars > ttyymmnn 04/19/2018 at 11:04

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For as popular as planes are as transportation, its sad how little people know. I guess the same could be said about cars though. People suck.

ttyymmnn > OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars 04/19/2018 at 11:04

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America is not known for its informed consumers.

Aremmes > ttyymmnn 04/19/2018 at 11:05

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On the radio this morning I heard that the fatigue fracture on the fan blade that broke on SWA1380 started on the inside. It seems that either their testing methods do not account for hidden damage (say, doing visual inspections instead of X-ray analysis), or the blades’ fatigue onset is much shorter and sudden than currently thought (if they are doing X-ray analysis and didn’t find evidence of fatigue during the last overhaul).

ttyymmnn > Aremmes 04/19/2018 at 11:10

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Anything you heard on the radio today would be absolute conjecture, even if it were coming from an NTSB investigator who actually looked at the engine on the tarmac. It will be months before a detailed analysis determines exactly what caused the accident.

That being said, there is clearly a turbine blade missing from the disc. So yes, one definitely separated, and it was likely fatigue. The Seattle Times had a good piece yesterday that discusses the inspection issue, as well as the FAA’s role in all of this.

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/one-southwest-passenger-dead-others-injured-after-boeing-737-engine-blowout/

Mercedes Streeter > ttyymmnn 04/19/2018 at 11:16

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That’s my biggest confusion about this one. They had an engine out at altitude without significant damage to control surfaces or control systems. Aside from the (survivable) pressurization breach, there’s nothing too special about this one. I mean, I don’t want to disrespect the pilots whatsoever, but I would expect any seasoned commercial pilot to be able to handle this.

Heck, another Southwest flight experienced an extremely similar scenario (minus depressurization) what, two years ago?

ttyymmnn > Mercedes Streeter 04/19/2018 at 11:21

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I don’t remember exactly when the last SWA engine failure was. While the cabin didn’t pop, debris did pierce the fuselage underneath the cabin. If this failure turns out to be identical to the other one, then I think there will be some serious finger-pointing in lots of directions.

user314 > OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars 04/19/2018 at 11:21

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Most people understand aerodynamics about as well as Clarkson understands turbos:

OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars > user314 04/19/2018 at 11:23

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I think Clarkson knows more about turbos then people know how engines work, let alone aero.

f86sabre > Aremmes 04/19/2018 at 11:26

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Engine blades are complex beasts. Also, there multiple types of fatigue. All it takes is a small void to act as a stress concentration and crack growth can start. Their are non destructive testing methods that can give better insight to what is going inside than others, but even those aren’t perfect.

user314 > OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars 04/19/2018 at 11:30

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I should clarify: I think Jeremy Clarkson the person knows a great deal, but Clarkson the TV host knows a great deal less.

Mercedes Streeter > ttyymmnn 04/19/2018 at 11:34

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Oh, most certainly. Similar failures on the same engine on the same aircraft type of similar production and not too far apart in time? Oh boy. I actually am eager to see where the investigation leads

ttyymmnn > Mercedes Streeter 04/19/2018 at 11:36

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Be prepared to wait a year—or more—for a final report.

ttyymmnn > Mercedes Streeter 04/19/2018 at 11:36

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Be prepared to wait a year—or more—for a final report.

Snailkite > Mercedes Streeter 04/19/2018 at 11:37

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I think it’s mostly about seeing what is usually hidden to us. We don’t normally get to see the skill of pilots and the training they go through or all the other parts (ATC, FAA refs, redundant design, etc) that make flying so safe. It’s cool to see it all in action.

Mercedes Streeter > ttyymmnn 04/19/2018 at 11:37

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Oh I know...and like a year later (after I’ve completely forgotten about this) I’ll catch it on Wikipedia and be like “huh, so that’s what happened”.

ttyymmnn > Mercedes Streeter 04/19/2018 at 11:51

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I’ll try to keep Oppo up to date! I subscribe to various aviation squawks and news sites where that sort of thing pops up.

Azrek > ttyymmnn 04/19/2018 at 12:15

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This just in...Shit breaks occasionally!

ttyymmnn > Azrek 04/19/2018 at 12:18

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Yes.......but this isn’t exactly like your dryer suddenly not heating up. I think the real story here is that engines like this function flawlessly millions of hours a year all over the world and, when they do break, the plane doesn’t just fall out of the sky. The passenger’s death is a bit of a freak occurrence, but the last time this happened to SWA, debris also punctured the fuselage, just not the passenger cabin. That speaks to a much more serous problem with the engine or the cowling surrounding it.

WilliamsSW > ttyymmnn 04/19/2018 at 13:10

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Ahhh, this is what I like - facts without any half-assed ‘analysis’! Thanks for the link.

WilliamsSW > Mercedes Streeter 04/19/2018 at 13:14

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You are correct, and airline pilots train for these scenarios, but there were a few complicating factors - the combination of engine loss and depressurization, the fact that the flight crew didn’t *know* the extent of airframe damage, and the knowledge that there were injuries in the back all elevate the stress. The crew ‘did their job’, but they also did it extremely well, and deserve commendation for that.

You hope that any airline crew will do the same, but some will go their whole careers without ever experiencing anything that stressful.